QUOTES FROM MORMON LEADERS: Until About 50-60 Years Ago Mormon Leaders Had Always Claimed Mormonism Is Not Christian

UNTIL ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO MORMONS LEADERS PROUDLY PROCLAIMED MORMONS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. THEY CLAIMED CHRISTIANTY WAS OF THE DEVIL, AND MORMONISM IS “THE ONE TRUE CHURCH” – BUT NOT CHRISTIAN

I am posting this to show those that may doubt that assertion that until the last 40 years Mormons leaders have boldy said that they are not Christian. What follows is quotes from Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders. It must be remebered that the LDS church was started on the first video of Jesus christ in which he was told that all of Christiandom is apostate and an abomination.

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Joseph Smith (Mormonism’s founder)Joseph Smith claimed that he had seen both God the Father and Jesus Christ and asked these personages which church he should join. He claimed he was told to join none of them, “for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight” (Joseph Smith History 1:19). When asked “Will all be damned but Mormons?” Smith replied, “Yes, and a great portion of them unless they repent and work righteousness” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 119). “Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth” (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10). The Doctrine and Covenants (1:30) leaves no doubt to the Mormon teaching of exclusivity when it says the LDS church is, “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased ….” 

Brigham Young (Mormonism’s Second President)“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness” (Journal of Discourses 5:73). “The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God” (Journal of Discourses 8:171). “With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world” (Journal of Discourses 8:199). “Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity” (Journal of Discourses 10:230). “The religion of God embraces every fact that exists in all the wide arena of nature, while the religions of men consist of theory devoid of fact, or of any true principle of guidance; hence the professing Christian world are like a ship upon a boisterous ocean without rudder, compass, or pilot, and are tossed hither and thither by every wind of doctrine” (Journal of Discourses 10:265). “… the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans” (Journal of Discourses 22:44). “Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked on to the earth” (Journal of Discourses 6:176). 

John Taylor (Mormonism’s 3rd President)“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense …the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century” (Journal of Discourses 6:167). “What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.” (Journal of Discourses 6:25). “What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing …Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools; they know neither God nor the things of God” (Journal of Discourses 13:225). “And who is there that acknowledges [God’s] hand? …You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” (Journal of Discourses 6:24). 

Daniel H. Wells (Mormon Apostle)“The whole system of Christianity is a failure so far as stemming the tide of wickedness and corruption is concerned, or turning men from their evil ways to living lives of righteousness before God our Heavenly Father. I would rather preach the Gospel to a people who have not got any religion than I would to a people who have got a great deal of religion. You take the Catholic world. What impression can the truths of the Gospel make upon them as a people? Scarcely any impression at all.  Why? Because they are satisfied with what they have got, which we know is an error, and which is not calculated to stem the tide of wickedness and corruption which floods the world. It never will convert the world to God or His Kingdom, or convey a knowledge of God unto the children of men, and it is life eternal to know Him, the living and true God. The Christianity of the period will never make the people acquainted with God in the world. It will never bring them to eternal life as spoken of in the Scriptures. It is an utter impossibility. In the first place they do not know anything about God, and in the second place, they apparently don’t want to know anything about Him. They have reared a superstructure in the earth which is false. It is and has been a tremendous imposture to the children of men. Some have come out of it, to a certain extent, seeing its incongruity, and yet they have floundered in the dark, not knowing what was right; not having that knowledge of God which is necessary to obtain eternal life, they have been tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of doctrine, without being able to find the truth. Many who have thus been foundering are honest people; but the so-called system of Christianity is not only an error and a snare, but is a monstrous iniquity fastened upon the children of men throughout the earth. No wonder that people become infidel. The inconsistent and incongruous nature of the system is enough to make any being who reasons infidel. It was time the truth should be revealed; it was time for the Lord to restore the everlasting Gospel, for men were blind. Darkness covered the earth, even gross darkness the minds of the people in regard to religious subjects. Perhaps a darker time was never known since the earth began its revolutions around the sun. From what I have read and from what experience I have had in life, and the intelligence I possess, I make bold to give my testimony that the darkest period the world ever saw was when this work first commenced, when it was made known from heaven to Joseph Smith. It was no darker here, perhaps, than in any other part of the world; but it was just as dark in Christian countries as in any Pagan country, so far as true religion and the light of heaven were concerned” (Journal of Discourses 24:321-322). 

Orson Pratt (Mormon Apostle)“Q. After the Church of Christ fled from the earth to heaven, what was left? “A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who …left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority…” (The Seer, pg.205). “…all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives Baptism or the Lord’s supper from their hands highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people …The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints” (The Seer, pg. 255).“This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostasy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations” (Journal of Discourses 14:346). “This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now” (Journal of Discourses 18:44). “But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be …But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written – `Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots’” (Journal of Discourses 18:172). “Who is Babylon? I have already explained that Babylon is a great power that should be in the earth under the name of a church, a woman – that generally represents a church – full of blasphemy …These churches are scattered over the wide face of the earth, and this is called Babylon. Another angel is to follow the one that brings the Gospel, after it has been sufficiently preached, and proclaim the downfall of this great and corrupt power in the earth” (Journal of Discourses 18:179). “The worshipers of Baal were far more consistent than apostate Christendom; for they had a faint hope that Baal would hear and answer them; but modern divines have no expectation that their God will say anything to them or to their followers. Baal’s followers cried from morning until evening for him to give unto them a miraculous manifestation, in the presence of Elijah; but to even expect a supernatural manifestation or revelation now is considered, by modern religionists, as the greatest absurdity. Baal’s worshipers, therefore, with all their absurdities, approached nearer the religion of heaven, in some of their expectations, than those who falsely call themselves Christians” (Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, No. 1 (1850), pp.12-13). “We have already proved in the previous numbers of this series that immediately after the first century the whole earth became corrupted by the great “Mother of Harlots,” that apostasy and wickedness succeeded Christianity, that for the want of new revelation, all legal succession to the apostleship was discontinued that the gifts and powers of the Holy Spirit ceased and that the Church was no longer to be found on the earth: this being the case, all nations must have been destitute of the everlasting gospel for many generations – not destitute of its history as it was once preached and enjoyed but destitute of its blessings, of its powers, of its gifts, of its priesthood, of its ordinances administered by legal authority” (Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, No.6 (1851), pg.82). 

Heber C. Kimball (First Counselor to Brigham Young)“Christians – those poor, miserable priests Brother Brigham was speaking about – some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth …” (Journal of Discourses 5:89). 

George Q. Cannon (Counselor to presidents Young, Taylor, Woodruff and Snow)“I do not wish to say anything in relation to other forms of religion; I do not know that it is necessary that I should do so; but no thinking man can admit that Christianity so-called – I call it a false Christianity, untrue to its name – satisfies the wants of humanity at the present time. It is not a religion that satisfies” (Journal of Discourses 24:185). “After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon” (Gospel Truth, pg.324). 

Wilford Woodruff (4th LDS President)“I said then, and I say now, may the Lord give me such periods of darkness as were enjoyed by the Apostles and Saints of old, in preference to the Gospel blaze of modern Christianity. The ancient doctrine and power will unlock the mysteries of heaven, and pour forth that Gospel light, knowledge, and truth, of which the heavens are full, and which has been poured out in every generation when Prophets appeared among the children of men. But the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called” (Journal of Discourses 2:196). 

Erastus Snow (LDS Apostle)“There is a theory in the human mind – I will say with a certain school of modern philosophers – to satisfy themselves and justify their infidelity; the bent and tendency of their inclinations is that way. But it is probable that the crude, undefined devices and erroneous notions and ideas of modern Christianity touching the Deity leads to this infidelity, as much as anything else. The advocates of Christianity are in a great measure to blame. When we begin to scan the teachings and enquire into the views of the leading divines of modern times, and examine their articles of faith and their discipline, the teachings of different Christian denominations on the subject of the Deity, we do not wonder that the reflecting, careful thinker, should repudiate their crude notions” (Journal of Discourses 19:268). 

B.H. Roberts (LDS Seventy and Historian)“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” (Introduction to the History of the Church 1:XL). “This view of God as an incorporeal, immaterial, bodiless, partless, passionless being is now and has been from the days of the great apostasy from God and Christ, in the second and third centuries, the doctrine of Deity generally accepted by apostate Christendom. The simple doctrine of the Christian Godhead, set forth in the New Testament is corrupted by the meaningless jargon of these creeds, and their explanations; and the learned who profess a belief in them are wandering in the darkness of the mysticisms of the old pagan philosophies” (History of the Church, 1:LXXXV). 

Parley P. Pratt (Mormon Apostle)“The false and corrupt institutions, and still more corrupt practices of `Christendom,’ have had a downward tendency in the generations of man for many centuries …The overthrow of those ancient degenerate races is a type of that which now awaits the nations call `Christian,’ or in other words, `the great whore that sitteth upon many waters” (Key to the Science of Theology, 1938 ed., pg.106). 

James Talmage ( LDS Apostle)“A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ …From the facts already stated it is evident that the Church was literally driven from the earth; in the first ten centuries immediately following the ministry of Christ the authority of the Holy Priesthood was lost among men, and no human power could restore it” (The Articles of Faith, pp.200,203). “The significance and importance of the great apostasy, as a condition precedent to the re-establishment of the Church in modern times, is obvious. If the alleged apostasy of the primitive Church was not a reality, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the divine institution its name proclaims” (The Great Apostasy, preface). 

Joseph Fielding Smith (10th LDS President)“For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation that was not, in the year 1820, so obscured by false tradition and ceremonies, borrowed from paganism, as to make it unrecognizable; or else it was entirely denied …Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men” (Doctrines of Salvation 3:282). 

Spencer W. Kimball (12th LDS President)“This is the only true church …This is not a church. This is the Church of Jesus Christ. There are churches of men all over the land and they have great cathedrals, synagogues, and other houses of worship running into the hundreds of millions of dollars. They are churches of men. They teach the doctrines of men, combined with the philosophies and ethics and other ideas and ideals that men have partly developed and partly found in sacred places and interpreted for themselves” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pg.421). “Presumptuous and blasphemous are they who purport to baptize, bless, marry, or perform other sacraments in the name of the Lord while in fact lacking the specific authorization” (The Miracle of Forgiveness, pg.55). 

Bruce McConkie (Mormon Apostle)“The traditions of the elders – as is also the case with the traditions of an apostate Christendom – are wholly devoid of the least scintilla of inspiration. They are, as Jesus said, ‘the commandments of men’” (The Mortal Messiah, Vol.2, FOOTNOTES, Pg.412). “What of seventies? Who are they, and how do they fit into the eternal scheme of things? That their mission and ministry is unknown among the cults of Christendom is one of the great evidences of the apostate darkness that engulfs those who call themselves by the name of Him who called seventies to stand as especial witnesses of that very name” (The Mortal Messiah, 3:99-100). “Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general. False churches, false prophets, false worship – breeding as they do a way of life that runs counter to the divine will – all these are signs of the times” (The Millennial Messiah, pg.403). “What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power? …It is all of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel …It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts” (The Millennial Messiah, pp.54-55). “As with other doctrines and ordinances, apostate substitutes of the real thing are found both among pagans and supposed Christians” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.72). “When inquiring and scientific minds delve into the narrow and bigoted creeds of the apostate sects of Christendom it is not surprising that they rebel against those dogmas falsely set forth as the tenets of true religion” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.107). “Christianity is the religion of the Christians. Hence, true and acceptable Christianity is found among the saints who have the fullness of the gospel, and a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.132). “The only real superiority of the apostate sects of Christendom over their more openly pagan counterparts is the fact that the Christian sects (though rejecting the doctrines, ordinances, and powers of the gospel) have nonetheless preserved many of the ethical teachings of Christ and the apostles” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.240). “And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). “Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era.” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.316). “In large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed before the Unknown God, and to whom Paul said: “Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you” (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 374). “For instance: The creeds of apostate Christendom teach untruths about God, and the scriptures say that those who accept these creeds ‘have inherited lies.’ (Jer. 16:16-21.) Those who accept any of the doctrines of the apostate churches are said to ‘believe a lie.’ (2 Thess. 2:1-12.) The process of apostasy consists in changing ‘the truth of God into a lie.’” (Mormon Doctrine pg. 440).“Pagan tribal gods were the creation of the imaginations of apostate peoples, just as the creeds and apostate views of God which prevail in modern Christendom are the result of forsaking the truth” (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 511).“Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, and they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail …Mormons are true Christians; their worship is the pure, unadulterated Christianity authored by Christ and accepted by Peter, James, and John and all the ancient saints” (Mormon Doctrine, pg.513). “The gods of Christendom, for instance, are gods who were created by men in the creeds of an apostate people. There is little profit or peace in serving them, and certainly there is no salvation available through them” (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg.545).

VIDEO AND COMMENTARY by Damon Whitsell: Joyce Meyers Blatantly And Deliberately Adding to Gods Word

Joyce Meyers Blatantly And Deliberately Adding to Gods Word

Here is my commentary on this video by Joyce Meyers that someone pointed out to me. Scroll down to see the video.

Sometimes it is very exasperating to see what Word of Faith teachers like Joyce Meyer do. Especially when they blatantly and deliberately ADD to the Word of God to mislead people. In this video originally entitled “Temptation and Self Control” Meyer intentionally ADDS to the Word of God and purposely misquotes the Amplified Bible Version of Galatians 6:8 saying “…but I really like what THE AMPLIFIED says here, it says that if we sow to the spirit you reap LIFE AND LIFE ETERNAL. That says something to me because it doesn’t just mean I that can finally have a great life when I go to heaven, but I can have a good life right here…”

How can I say Joyce is deliberately, intentionally and purposely ADDING to the Word of God? Well folks,, she has her Bible open and is reading directly from the Amplified Version while she quotes verse 7 and part of verse 8, but she does not read or caption the last portion of verse 8 for her audience to read. Why does she not display the whole verse for everyone to read? Because she is adding to the Word of God to justify her “good life now” theology – and to deceive you into buying into it.

Verse 8 in the Amplified actually says “For he who sows to his own flesh (lower nature, sensuality) will from the flesh reap decay and ruin and destruction, but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life”.

It DOES NOT say LIFE AND LIFE ETERNAL and neither do ANY OTHER Bible versions of Galatians 6:8.

This is a blatant and deliberate addition to the Word of God that does not come from God despite the fact that Meyer had said a little prayer to God that he would “…bring things out of me that I don’t even know and speak through me in Jesus name”. I can confidently tell you that it is NOT God that is speaking to you in this video. Rather it is Joyce Meyer and her flesh trying to sow “decay and ruin and destruction” into your life while you think she is trying to help you “Enjoy Everyday Life”.

At around 2:25​ Meyer says “the Flesh will always try to get involved in everything you do”. It’s clear that she has not, as she later says, “say no to the Flesh and yes to God”. Because we all know that God did not prompt her to lie and deceive by adding to His Word. Meyers goes on to say “We must learn to slow down and not just do things impulsively, take a little time to really examine something in the Spirit and determine whether you believe the action your about to take is something that God is initiating, or if it is some bright idea your coming up with”

Friends, do I have to tell you that God did not initiate Meyers actions here but her flesh did and you will reap bad dividends in the end following her “good life now” gospel. Joyce should be closely examining herself, her motivations and her teachings,, and so should ALL OF US.

Hat-Tip goes to Gabriel Smit for pointing me to this very egregious video.

CLICK HERE TO SEE MANY MORE ARTICLES AND VIDEOS ON THE FALSE TEACHNGS OF JOYCE MEYERS AT MY WEBSITE ***THE WORD ON THE WORD OF FAITH***

ARTICLE AND AUDIO PODCAST: Ex-Word of Faith Testimony of a Former Joyce Meyers Follower


HAT TIP to EndTimesPropheticWords

Testimony left at Pulpit Pimps here

Bill, you say that Joyce Meyer doesn’t run a cult, otherwise you wouldn’t be in it. Let me say that the people who are in cults think the same way! Nobody likes to think that they have been deceived,. They want to think they are smart enough to know better. I assure you that if Joyce Meyer teaches the prosperity gospel or that Jesus went to hell so you wouldn’t have to (and she does!), then she IS running a cult, and if you are supporting her, then YOU ARE in a cult and you don’t even know it!

What’s more, there is probably nothing anyone here can say to you that will convince you otherwise, and I for one will not attempt to do so. All anyone here can do for you is speak the truth. It’s up to God and you from there. If God can’t take some of what we say here and get it through to you, then you cannot be reached sir.

A few years ago, I supported Joyce Meyer with everything I had. I regarded her as a true, down to earth, sincere, and prosperous role model. I hung on every word that came out of her mouth as if they were the words of God straight to me. I never missed a show, and if I did, I watched her internet broadcasts. When she held her conferences in my area, I went to see her in person. I would do as she said to prove my commitment to God and take vacation days and drive 3 hours to Tulsa to see her preach at the ORU campus and drive 3 hours back home, justifying myself to God by reminding Him of these sacrifices.

Talking about sacrifice, not only did I give up a day’s pay to see her, but it was nothing for me to sacrifice $100 or more into the white buckets they’d pass around as offering plates, knowing all along that I’d have to sacrifice again when I didn’t have that money to pay a bill with! That, in addition to the hundreds of dollars I’d send her through the mail every month! In the typical Word of Faith fashion, I would then go to God in “prayer” and tell Him what He had to do (you [God] MUST keep your word; you MUST provide ‘pressed down, shaken-together’ etc; if I delight myself in you, you MUST give me the desire of my heart, ad nausea!).

Bill, that’s NOT praying! When a WoF preacher “prays” by saying “we bind you Satan, we come against all the powers of darkness, we rebuke all poverty and lack” etc, they are NOT praying to God! They are talking to the devil and speaking as if they were God Himself. It is NOT prayer. But I digress.

I absolutely LOVED Joyce Meyer! But God had other plans for me. I was DEEP into the Word of Faith . It was all I had ever known all my life. My grandmother latched onto the seed faith teachings of Oral Roberts back when it first came out. She taught my mother in the ways of the WoF, and my mother in turn taught us the same way!

I grew up thanking God for being numbered among those who knew the “truth!” Needless to say, I naturally equated the WoF to be the one and only WILL OF GOD, and anyone who believed otherwise was deceived and damned to hell! That being the case, I grew up feeling at one with all the T.V. ministers. I loved them ALL! As a young boy, I read Copeland’s “The Laws of Prosperity” and I was determined to make those laws work … after all they are LAWS and even God must abide by them!

But taking an honest look back over the past 30 years, I had to admit that they never worked for me. I grew up into my 40’s all along thinking there was something wrong with me. I would actually look at a mustard seed in the spice rack and wonder why my faith was so much smaller that that and didn’t work. Then I would get depressed because my faith was so much tinier than that mustard seed that God wouldn’t honor it.

I felt rejected by God. Sometimes that feeling of rejection made me angry at Him and there were times I actually told Him that he was a liar! That He WAS a respecter of persons; that He showed favoritism, and that He didn’t love me, even though I was doing everything I knew to do to keep with “His” teachings as I was taught them!

All that being said, let me say this: there was nothing wrong with my faith, so don’t even try to tell me “oh ye of little faith!” I’ve heard that all my life and now I know better. My faith was fine, but the problem was that my faith was in a LIE! The “god” I was mad at was NOT the God of the Bible! The “god” of the Word of Faith is a demon straight from HELL! I know that now, but therein lies the danger in Word of Faith teachings. The people in that CULT don’t even know who the TRUE God really is, and are damned as a result!

Back to Joyce Meyer. I supported her “ministry” with ALL of my substance, and I thought she was truly God speaking straight to me. But the more I gave to her, the poorer I got (the story of my life)! It wasn’t until I got down to where I was about to LOSE MY HOUSE the Lord began to act on the anguish inside me. I remember back in 2005, watching Joyce on T.V. One day she was talking about how she had brought her parents to St Louis and bought them a house close to her. She said “I was just in the mood to buy houses!” I almost screamed at her “why don’t you buy MINE for me?”

I pleaded with God to speak to her heart to send me a check and prevent the impending disaster facing me. Then I would know that God really heard me and loved me enough to finally do something after 30 years of giving!

But of course Joyce never did do that, and since I thought she was close to God and had his attentive ear, that it must be that God wanted me to suffer all the more! I couldn’t understand it. I had donated to her (God’s?) ministry, I helped her build her headquarters building and all the furnishings in it. According to her plea for funds back then, I was promised that I would “own” one square foot for each $100 I gave towards it (I gave $300, so I “owned” 3 square feet).

Had God forgotten that ????? Now I was in desperate need, had NOBODY to beg from like she did, and I felt God didn’t care. I told Him He was cruel and mean! But I still loved Him because even then, if I had given up on my ONLY hope, then I REALLY had no hope at all. Even then, I felt that my breakthrough might still come, so I’d pick myself up and apologize to God for my ill will towards Him.

Then one day, as I was watching Joyce on T.V. it seemed like literally “scales” fell from my eyes! Near the end of the show, as she was begging for donations, and her announcer came on talking about all her books that we could have for a “gift” of X-dollars, and then talked about “seeing Joyce in person” and hearing “Joyce preach the word as only she can do.” God Himself spoke to my spirit in that still small voice and told me “this isn’t about God, this is about JOYCE!” “Joyce” this, and “Joyce” that! And all the dollar signs on the T.V. screen seemed to “stick-out” like sore thumbs, and the whole thing smacked of one big long INFOMERCIAL about Joyce Meyer!!

That, my friend, was the beginning of my exodus from the Word of Faith! Each time I saw her show, it got even more disgusting to me … and I stopped giving to her. S L O W L Y, by putting a stop to the hemorrhage of money flowing out of my bank account to these people, I was able to recover somewhat, and I never did lose my house. But it was close. That, my friend was GOD showing me that He really did care about my financial well-being. He didn’t want my money!!!!! And not only did He NOT want my money, I was NOT cursed with a curse if I KEPT it !!!! That is freedom!

About the same time, I just happened to stumble upon this website, Pulpit-Pimps.org, and God has used this site TREMENDOUSLY to teach me the truth about where I had been all my life and that the Lord loved me enough to lead me out of it into the truth!

Unbeknownst to me, my mother, who had raised me in the WoF, had been led out of their heresy about a year before I had! She never told me though. I asked her why, and she said that I would have thought she was backslidden and lost in heresy forever. And she was right. Some other members of my extended family are not convinced, and there is a definite divide – but even that is mentioned in the Bible. That’s why I say that nothing any of us say will EVER convince you of the truth. You will just think that we are deceived and damned to hell. If God doesn’t get through to you, then YOU are not reachable. It’s as simple as that!

I know this is a LONG post, but before I stop there is some more I want to say about the Word of Faith.

The salvation of Jesus Christ is NOT about all the things that the Lord gives to His people! And people who seek the Lord for what He can give them are seeking Him for all the WRONG reasons! A person cannot receive the salvation of Christ unless first he realizes that he is a wretched sinner who deserves HELL, not all of the worldly stuff you WoF people clamor after! It’s not about getting all the STUFF. It’s about giving up their lives for HIM and becoming His slaves. Somehow you Word of Faith people have gotten that all backwards. You think salvation is about getting, and getting more It’s just STUFF, material worldly stuff, it’s CARNAL and ungodly! You think that all your STUFF is proof that you are blessed. There is one thing that is promised for sure to all true followers of Christ and that is PERSECUTION!

You Word of Faithers only think of earthly “blessings”. But God does not promise us the things of this world. Think about it What would it profit you to gain the whole world and lose your own SOUL? Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, all of those hellish creatures on TBN – I can’t even name all of the pulpit pimps on TV (and maybe even your pastor too by the way) all of them have their reward. They have their “Best Life Now” But they can’t take any of it with them where they go

What about later on? The Bible speaks of the rich man and Lazarus. That kind of reminds me of the relationship between all these RICH pastors and their pimped followers. I believe they will suffer the same fate!

God does promise us SPIRITUAL prosperity, but you Word of Faith people only think on things of this world. When people like you give expecting your 100-fold return, you are giving to GET !!!! But the true Jesus tells us to give, expecting NOTHING in return. Do any of you honestly do that? Neither are we supposed to give out of NECESSITY or of COMPULSION … tell THAT to all of the pimp preachers on TV who incessantly compel us to give to their ministries ad nausea! It’s WRONG! If any of them really believed what they “preach” then all they really have to do is give and expect their 100-fold return and leave their audiences ALONE! But they won’t ever do that, because they really don’t believe what they preach either. Otherwise they would practice what they preach. YOU are profitable to them, and they fear that if they don’t ask YOU for it, YOU won’t give it to them. YOU are their cash cow, not GOD.

I am not attacking you, so don’t even go there. I am speaking from a life of experience. As I said, I was all bound up and hog-tied in all that Word of Faith crap for almost 30 YEARS!!! I gave, and I gave. I did all of the right things according to our famous PIMPS! It was nothing for me to fork over almost everything I had … tithes and offerings above and beyond what was expected, because I BELIEVED what the pimps said. I thought that I was doing what GOD wanted, and I suffered the consequences of that for far too long.

Like Joyce Meyer always says “give until it hurts!” — “give SACRIFICIALLY!” My intentions were good. And I had faith. But my faith was in a LIE! I was sincere and honest, but I was sincerely and honestly WRONG. I think that the Lord really knew that, and finally got through to me to just STOP IT! Like, HELL-OOOOO! If this thing still doesn’t work after nearly 30 years, guess what – IT DOESN’T WORK!!

I see myself all over all of you defenders of these people. I was just like ALL of you. And a couple of years ago, I would have been standing right there by your side. That’s why I say that ONLY THE LORD will ever get through to you. Nobody could have EVER gotten through to me so I know that.

I guess you can tell I am just a little bit angry about this lie that is continuously propagated by the deluge of televangelists spewing this prosperity vomit into living rooms across this country and bringing millions to hell with them. But maybe somehow the Lord can use my experience to help lead someone else out of this DELUSION you call faith. It is another gospel, and the “Jesus” you think you worship will someday be crystal clear to you. I just hope that you find out who it really is before it’s too late. REALLY! The Bible is the truth, and it contains the way to the real Jesus. This Word of Faith gospel is pure MADNESS !!!!!

VISIT THE EX WORD OF FAITH TESTIMONY PAGE AT DAMON’S – THE WORD ON THE WORD OF FAITH GROUPBLOG

PROVERBS 18:21 – Are There Really Life and Death In The Power Of Words? by Damon Whitsell


Romans 4:17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers and other Word of Faith teachers proclaim there is creative power and literal power of life and death in the tongue, via (Proverbs 18:21 KJV) “Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof”.  Is this the correct interpretation and application of this verse?

The site BeginningAndEnd.com posted a wonderfully well researched and written article entitled “Apostasy Alert: Joel Osteen and Oprah Preach New Age Majic”. In the comment section a very sincere sounding guy named Todd wrote a comment about the article and the subject of the Power Of Words that provoked a response from me. My response turned out to be way too long to post in the comment section so I copied Todd’s comment and made my response here for him and the readers of this blog. To Todd, and others – I am sorry this comment turned out so long that I had to turn it into a post here on this blog, but this is a subject that I am very very passionate about and as you start reading it you will discover why. Todd, your comment there was almost illegible and I had to edit it to make it more readable for everyone because I had to read it five or six times to comprehend all of what you was saying. I hope I did not misrepresent you, your words and your meaning by doing so. Please speak up if I did. To the readers of this blog, you can read Todd’s comment in it’s original form at the article link above. To everyone, if you do not have time to read my very long response, please read the two articles linked at the bottom as they are the best post on this blog about the overall subject. PLEASE NOTE – I usually do not open comments on this blog but I have done so on this post incase Todd or anyone would like to discuss this matter further. Here is Todd’s comment and my response. – Damon Whitsell

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“Todd –- Anyone who makes false claims confuses and aids disorder. While people should be aware of false teachers if you present it mixed with false hood it only serves to confuse. The bible clearly says (Prov 18:21 KJV) “Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.” God in the beginning called things into existence when He created the world. When Jesus came He has called us to do the same. If you say unto the mountain be thou removed and doubt not in your heart it shall be removed. The devil only copies God and has to work within the laws of the universe that are in existent. God with using Moses as a medium wrote the Pentateuch (the 5 books of Moses), penta as in 5 like Pentagram. Often in the occult they use a 5 pointed star. Does this make the Pentateuch evil? No. The established laws of the universe by God have it that death and life are in the power of the tongue [law of attraction]. Now you like Moses or Jesus or the Apostles can speak and cause a thing and will be righteous if you do it in His name and for His glory. Or you can use the law of attraction for greed, lust, yourself, the devil and death. Death or life is in the power of the tongue. This includes all you say every act is a magical act say those in occult. God says what you speak happens by many biblical verses like proverbs 18:21 and others. So if you speak out negativity you will get it. If you were to listen to a sermon like, Taming the tongue – by pastor Matthew Hagge, you might see a lot of similarities between it and ‘the secret’. The difference is in pastor Hagees sermon will be full of bible verses and biblical application. But the method is the same cause the laws of the universe created by God are the same. Get your facts straight cause it will further your cause. You have a lot of good info on this site, but wrong facts will turn those whom you wish to save away. And death and life are in the tongue. Jesus said ‘judge not lest ye be judged’ so be careful not to judge present facts and be clear and cross check them.

Proverbs 4:21 KJV) “Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.”

(Proverbs 6:2 KJV) “Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.”

(Proverbs 12:18 KJV) “There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.”

(Proverbs 15:4 KJV) “A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.”

(Proverbs 17:20 KJV) “He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: and he that hath a perverse tongue falleth into mischief

Authority is released through words:

(Mark 11:23 KJV) “For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.”

(Mark 11:24 KJV) “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”

(John 14:13 KJV) “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”

(John 14:14 KJV) “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.”

You receive what you believe…(Proverbs 6:2 KJV) “Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.”

The tongue… oh how powerful”

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HI Todd, I read your comment and felt lead to respond. This may shock you but I have to say that Joel Osteen and his teaching killed a very good friend of mine. I know you may think that sounds absurd but please hear me out. My friend got addicted to pain pills and when I would tell him “those pills are going to destroy you, if you do not get off of them”. He would respond “not if you will quit speaking negative things into my life”. He got that idea because he was an avid follower of Osteen. I know you might think Joel and his teachings had nothing to do with my friend’s death, it was the pills. Please let me explain further.

In Texas you used to could go to “pain management centers” and they would give you pain pills without even asking you if you were in pain. They cracked down on those places so my friend had to start buying them from street dealers. One day he had no money so he went to see the dealer and when the dealer put the pills in his hand he took off running, got in his car and left. They followed him and after about a 10 minute chase several cars converged on him and they shot about 50 bullets into his car, and one hit his spine leaving him paralyzed. About now you might be thinking – how was it Joel’s teaching that killed my friend, it was the bullet, or the pills – right. Well it keeps going.

My friend never got off the pills and eventually he died from bed sore infections because even though he previously had great upper chest strength, he lost that because he would rather be pilled out than anything else, so he eventually could not lift himself out of bed. So how can I sincerely say Joel and his teachings killed my friend?

Myself, all his friends and his whole family told him the same thing for over 3 years, “those pills are going to destroy you, if you do not get off of them” and he never changed his response of  “not if you will quit speaking negative things into my life”. A few days before he died the doctors told him it was only a matter of time until the infection took his life and the day before he died he accused us all of killing him with our words. So what killed him, the pills, the bullet, the bed sores, his sin, his addiction, our words – or a false interpretation of Prov. 18:21 that he got from Joel Osteen?

I say it was the teaching he got from Osteen, and now – despite being followers of Joel for years – his family agrees that it was the false teaching of Joel (and the Word of Faith Movement) that done it. If he had not blamed our words maybe he could have seen it was his actions that was leading to, and eventually caused, his death. No one forced him to take those pills and we were merely pleading with him to stop his actions that were killing him.  It took such a tragedy for his family to realize that you cannot just take verses out of context to impose a meaning on them that the context does not demand. If you read all of Proverbs 18 the meaning of verse 21 is clearly that words have influence to build people up or tear them down – not that words have magical creative power and the literal power of life and death.

If you think our words killed him let me ask you a few things I used to try to reason with him. If words literally kill then why do we make guns or use other inanimate objects as weapons? Why do nations use weapons in war if words really kill, why not just use words? If you cross an icy bridge and have a wreck because you did not slow down as the caution signs warn, was it the words on that sign that made the bridge freeze over, or is it just the nature of bridges to freeze over in the cold and rain? If you say words where used to create the world and universe as you did above, have you ever tried to create a new universe and been successful? Would it surprise you that some witchcraft sites also teach the “power of words” saying all of creation was created with words? Well try it sometimes and when it does not work, please realize that it is because you are not God and only God can create with words. And ask yourself, does He really have to use words to create or is that just something He said – or he chose to create that way – so we can relate a little bit to how he did it? Does God have a tongue and lips? Doesn’t scripture clearly say God is Spirit?  Are there words in the spirit world? Aren’t words and their sound just vibrations in the air caused by the movement of our vocal chords, tongues and lips?

You list other Scripture to make your point, but have you ever tried and successfully thrown a mountain into the sea with words? Just a couple of verses before Mark 11:22 Jesus had cursed a fig tree and it withered and died, have you ever killed a fig tree with words? You say that Satan “has to work within the laws of the universe that are in existence” to try to copy what God does. Where is this law listed in scripture? It only exist in the false interpretations of a few verses that Joel and other Word Faith teachers impose on them by using them, out of context, as proof-text to redefine faith as a force and not as simple trust in an object – like you trust (or have faith in) your favorite chair to hold you up when you sit in it because it always has done so. Do you know that Joel got his interpretation from other Word of Faith teachers who got it from Kenneth Hagin? Do you know that Hagin got it from EW Kenyon who in turn got it from Phineas Quimby who was into the occultic New Thought Movement. Mary Baker Eddy of Christian Science fame was also a student of Quimby, are you familiar with that Pseudo Christian Cult and it’s teachings?

You also use (John 14:13 KJV) “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.”,, let me ask you, how do you balance that with (1 John 5:14-15 KJV) “And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing ***according to his will***, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him”. Please note vs. 14 says ACCORDING HIS WILL. How do you balance that so these scriptures do not contradict each other? Do we get “whatsoever we ask” or whatsoever we ask “according to his will”?

You also cite the following Proverbs verses, to conclude “The tongue… oh how powerful”…….

(Proverbs 6:2 KJV) “Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.” (Prov 12:18 KJV) “There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.” (Prov 15:4 KJV) “A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.” (Prov 17:20 KJV) “He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: and he that hath a perverse tongue falleth into mischief”.

….. have you ever considered the following verse when interpreting those verses? (James 3:8 KJV) “But ***the tongue can no man tame***; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison”. So here scripture says NO MAN CAN TAME THE TONGUE – do you really expect to master your tongue to the point you can do as God did and create good realities, rather than bad ones, out of nothing but words. What does that mean and what does it mean that the tongue is full of deadly poison? Well if you look at much of chapter 3 of James without paying close attention you might conclude that there really is literal deadly poison in the tongue, as in like there is literally life and death in it – BUT PLEASE NOTE  VERSE TWO “For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body”. This is not talking about the tongue literal killing, it is saying that with the tongue you can offend and tear someone down or with the tongue and the words you speak you can bless someone and build them up.

Please look at all of Proverbs 18. 1 Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom. 2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself. 3 When the wicked cometh, then cometh also contempt, and with ignominy reproach4 The words of a man’s mouth are as deep waters, and the wellspring of wisdom as a flowing brook. 5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment. 6 A fool’s lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes. 7 A fool’s mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul. 8 The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. 9 He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster. 10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe. 11 The rich man’s wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit. 12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility. 13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. 14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear? 15 The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge. 16 A man’s gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men. 17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. 18 The lot causeth contentions to cease, and parteth between the mighty. 19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle. 20 A man’s belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled. 21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. 22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord. 23 The poor useth intreaties; but the rich answereth roughly. 24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

Please note and re-read all the bolded and underlined parts and ask yourself what is the meaning of verse 21 according to the context? What does “and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof” mean? Does it mean that if I say Todd is gonna die, die, die tonight that you will die tonight? Does it mean that if I say “I feel bad and think I might die soon” that I will die soon? If so then I should be dying soon and you should die tonight. Or does it mean that if you and I get bad-mouthy with people they will get offended and might get their feelings hurt and even maybe give us a whop on the nose, or be unfriendly back toward us? Or does it mean that if you do someone wrong and steal from them they might shoot you? Or does it mean that if you take handfuls of pills everyday they will eventually kill you no matter how much people try to warn you? So brother let me ask you, if you get hooked on pills and people try to warn you but you die from them anyway, is it your fault for your bad actions or would it be the fault of those who use mere words to attempt to lovingly warn you that actions have even more consequences than words? Please look at all the context to the other Proverbs verses you have quoted – out of context – and you will see the context demands the same interpretation of those verses, as words are influential but not magical.

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What is Joel Osteen’s Net Worth As Of 2020, It increased over 4 Fold

Joel Osteen’s net worth is growing fast. If I remember correctly Joel’s networth was 40 million in 2015. But has grown over 4 fold since then.

Back in 2012 Joel bought a new mansion for himself and his wife Victoria, in Houston’s old money exclusive neighborhood called River Oaks, that was worth 10.5 million back then. And at that time Joel gave his 2.2 million dollar mansion to his oldest son. Pictures are on our GroupBlog called The Word On The Word Of Faith along with over 1100 more post on Joel and other Word of Faith movement preachers/teachers, including their unbiblical false teachings and practices. Including Kenneth Copeland who has been worth over 1 billion dollars for a long time and has bought at least 2 very very expensive multi-million dollar airplanes.

According to The Indian Tribune Osteen is now worth 110,000,000 dollars. And as many already know he bought a very expensive Lamborghini not too long ago. That is pictured here.

Here is one of the videos I have made on my Christian apologetics Youtube channel. I hope you enjoy the video and someone is helped by it. It asks and answer the question Does God Want All Christians to be rich?

Charismatics Fight Over Failed Trump Prophecies, “Weather Witching” Katt Kerr Says No Biblical Need To Apologize

On 01/12/2021 RelionUnplugged reported that Charismatics where “warring” with each other over failed Trump victory prophecies, even sending death threats to each other as Charlotte, N.C.-based evangelist Jeremiah Johnson, said in a January 7th Facebook post saying…

Over the last 72 hours, I have received multiple death threats and thousands upon thousands of emails from Christians saying the nastiest and most vulgar things I have ever heard toward my family and ministry. I have been labeled a coward, sellout, a traitor to the Holy Spirit, and cussed out at least 500 times. We have lost ministry partners every hour and counting. 

And…

“I fully expected to be called a false prophet etc., in some circles, but I could have never dreamed in my wildest imagination that so much satanic attack and witchcraft would come from charismatic/prophetic people,” he continued. “I have been flabbergasted at the barrage of continued conspiracy theories being sent every minute our way and the pure hatred being unleashed. 

“To my great heartache, I’m convinced parts of the prophetic/charismatic movement are far SICKER than I could have ever dreamed of. I truthfully never realized how absolutely triggered and ballistic thousands and thousands of saints get about Donald Trump.”

One speaker in the Charismatic Movement said the false Trump prophecies were “the largest scale deception I’ve seen in 49 years of following Jesus.” while yet another pastor also claims parts of the movement is “SICK.”

J. Gordon Melton, the compiler of the Encyclopedia of American Religions and an American religious studies professor at Baylor University claims that at least 40 Charismatic Christian leaders falsely prophesied a Trump Victory.

Weather Witching false Prophetess Katt Kerr later said…

“He (God) assured me in 2015 that Trump would sit in the White House for eight years and God assured me today when He walked into my room at noon — well, almost noon, 11:55 am. — He yelled as loud as He possibly could, ‘Justice will prevail.’”

Kerr absolved herself and other New Apostolic Reformation Movement false prophets from having to repent or even apologize for falsely prophesying a Trump victory saying, as Protestia Ministry shows,  she said God told her…

Watch My hand move! Now that man is done with their process, I will put My show on, and no one will ever forget when that happens. There will be great celebrations in the streets of this country and around the world. That great victory has come on behalf of the body of Christ, on behalf of My America, that I’m not giving up to any enemy.

So be ready to see what will happen, regardless of what they show. The lying frying (?) news and the liars and the stealers and the takers will pay greatly for what they have tried to do. So they will fail and fail greatly in every way, because that landslide will pull every one of them down, and justice will be served, says your God.

So stand in the light, or run to the darkness. But nothing will stop Me from My plan of putting My son Donald Trump back in that White House. Even if they inaugurate the villain and try to put him there, I will kick him out. I will remove him and I remove every obstacle that’s in the way. Maybe they’ll show that in the news, says your God. Can you not stand and not turn to the left and give himself as a partner to the evil that wants to take this land? Well, I say no, it will not happen. It will end and it will be done because I say it will be done!

Outrageous and false prophecies, and Kerr claiming that God appears and talks to her personally is nothing new. She has made such bold claims and many false prophecies for years. 

In 2017 Kerr and her “Weather Warriors” (her followers, as she called them), attempted to speak to and command hurricanes Irma, Jose and Katia to cause them to dissipate and to stop barreling towards the east coast inhttps://www.spiralnature.com/magick/weather-witching-harnessing-power-weather-magick/

the United States. But everyone who was paying attention to those storms and has a decent memory knows that hurricanes Irma, Jose and Katia devastated Florida and the rest of the south eastern coastline. 

At my main Youtube Channel I have the video of Kerr’s first attempt at weather witching (I use the term weather witching because controlling the weather and steering storms is something that witches try to do) to try to control those 3 hurricanes and cause them not hit America.

Here is her first video trying to convince her “weather warriors” to join her in commanding those hurricanes to “go away” and “veer to the north-east”.

In the next 3 videos I give my play by play commentary on her second a attempt, and then her making excuses (HERE and HERE) for why their words and commands did not work at controlling the hurricanes.

Here after 6 Days Of WEATHER WITCHING Kat Kerr Blames their Irma Failure On a Learning Curve, and Tries Again.

Here Kerr claims that her and her “Weather Warriors” words and commands did not work because God knew that Florida needed the rain because they had been in a major drought. But as I show in the video the Florida drought had long since ended and Florida did not need the rain.

Then after trying again after hurricane Irma had already hit and wreaked havoc in Florida, Kerr and her followers tried to stop hurricanes Jose and Katia and failed. She blamed their failures on a “learning curve”. But we all know that when Jesus commanded the weather he did not need any failing practice attempts because it takes a learning curve to learn how to control storms.

Here is that video of her excuses and her boisterously claiming that next time her and her Weather Warriors will get it right and they in fact will “learn” to control hurricanes.

THE TONGUES CONFUSION by Dr. Curtis Hutson

TOUNGES CONFUION

SOURCE: “Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. “ –I Cor. 14:6-9

The subject of tongues is worth study because it is in the Bible, and we need to learn how it deals with this important subject for two great reasons.

First, the tongues, or charismatic movement, is experiencing rapid growth. Seeking for a deeper experience, well-meaning and sincere Christians have been led into the movement. Due to a false understanding, thousands of believers seek for the experience of speaking in tongues in stead of for the power and fullness of the Holy Spirit to win souls.

On the other hand, many more thousands of Christians are so repulsed by what seems to them fanaticism, that they turn entirely away from any study of the fullness of the Holy Spirit. They are so afraid they will get out on a limb that they never bother to climb the tree.

I want Christians everywhere to be filled with the blessed Holy Spirit of God. There can be no great soul-winning churches, no revival, without the power of the Holy Spirit. Zechariah 4:6 states, “Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.”

Now there is a second great reason for studying the question of speaking in tongues. There is such widespread difference of opinion among sincere believers that the truth of the matter should be known. Every honest Christian should approach the study of tongues with an open mind and without prejudice. Surely God must be grieved when those who love Him and believe the Bible think so harshly of one another and differ so radically on such an important subject as being filled with the Holy Spirit.

In this study I will not talk about experience; we will only see what the Bible says. If one’s experience does not agree with the Bible, the experience is wrong, not the Bible. Experience is not the principle; the Bible is. And doctrine is not settled by one’s experience but by what the Bible has to say.

Several years ago a popular weekly television program featured a detective. If I recall correctly, his name was Sergeant Friday. In every story a situation developed in which Sergeant Friday said to a witness whom he questioned, “Just the facts, Mister. Just state the facts.” With God’s help, I shall do just that. We will see what the Bible says concerning the meaning of it, the motive behind it, the method for it, and the misunderstanding about it.

THE MEANING OF IT

The word translated “tongues” in Acts 2:4 is the Greek word glossa. I have just counted 50 times in my Strong’s Concordance where the word appears in the New Testament. Sixteen times it refers to a literal, human tongue–the physical organ in the mouth; once, in Acts “cloven tongues like as of fire,” and 33 times the word means “language.” But not one time in all the Bible does “tongues” mean a heavenly language that only God understands. It never means something mysterious nor unknown to mankind. In Acts 2 it was not a jabber but normal, human languages known and spoken by people present on the day of Pentecost; and the nationalities of those in whose language they were allowed to speak are given:

“And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. “ — Acts 2:7-11.

Notice the language of Acts 2. Verse 4 states, “They were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues …. “ It does not say they spoke with the unknown tongue; they simply spoke with other languages Verses 7 and 8 say, “And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?” Again the Bible does not say they spoke with some heavenly language and every man understood them because he was filled with the Holy Spirit. It simply says, “And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?” Then verses 9 through 11 list the nationalities of people whose languages were being spoken.

There are only three places in the book of Acts whet people spoke in tongues. Namely, at Pentecost — Acts 2:1 11; in Caesarea — Acts 10:44-46; and in Ephesus — Act 19:1-6.

In Acts 10:46 we are told how Cornelius and hi household were heard to “speak with tongues, and magnify God.” And Peter responded by saying, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?” These were ne converts, and Peter suggested baptism. The tongues spoken by Cornelius and his household were not miraculous tongues. It simply says that they spake with tongues and magnified God. Cornelius and his household were members of the Italian band from Rome, and their natural language was Latin. It is possible that in the centurion’s household were soldiers, slaves, servants and government officials from many of the nations of the Roman world. Could it have been that in their heavenly ecstasy they reverted each to his mother tongue in praising God?

It is a psychological truth that in moments of extreme delight or peril a foreigner will exclaim in his native tongue rather than in the language he has more recently acquired. But be that as it may, the tongues referred to in Acts 10:46 were known languages, not an ecstatic utterance.

The third historical record of people speaking in tongues in the book of Acts is found in chapter 19:1-6. When Paul met these twelve men in Ephesus, he asked, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?” Their reply was that they had never heard of the Holy Spirit. Now how could followers of John the Baptist be ignorant of the Holy Spirit, when he preached the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11)? Evidently the true message of John the Baptist had been lost as it was passed from one disciple to another; then when these misled men heard a clear presentation of the Gospel, they were baptized (vs. 5). Verse 6 states, “And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”

Here again the Bible does not say they spoke with heavenly languages or in some ecstatic utterance, but that they spoke with tongues, or languages. Ephesus, a great cosmopolitan city, was made up of people from different parts of the Roman world. The Bible does not indicate what languages were spoken. But it clearly indicates that more than one language was used: “…they spake with tongues” (plural). And verse 7 states, “And all the men were about twelve.” It is possible that a dozen different languages were spoken, as these new Christians, filled with joy, prophesied.

Aside from these three instances in the book of Acts, tongues are mentioned in Paul’s discussion of the gifts of the Spirit (I Cor. 12:1-14) and in I Corinthians 14. A study of I Corinthians 14 will reveal that the tongues mentioned are not so-called spiritual or heavenly languages. The languages used were normal, human languages. It was no jabber, no babble of sound unfamiliar to any human ear.

In that chapter it is referred to as “an unknown tongue”; but “unknown” is in italics, which means it is a supplied word, placed there by Bible translators for the sake of understanding. The languages mentioned here are simply foreign languages unknown to those present. Verses 23 and 24 make this especially clear:

“If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all.”

Now, visualize the scene. A church service is in progress and people are speaking in numerous foreign languages. Some uneducated or unlearned person, as the Scripture calls him, happens to walk into the service. He hears a number of people, all speaking with various languages; it is mass confusion, so he concludes all are mad! But if the church members would speak words easy to understand, instead of speaking in foreign languages that the unlearned do not know, then the unbeliever and the unlearned man would be convinced of all.

The use of the word “unlearned,” in verses 23 and 24, shows that the languages referred to were not supernatural. They could be learned by proper study. One can learn any foreign language if he studies it enough. If the languages used in I Corinthians 14 were a supernatural gift, then it would be available to the unlearned as well as the educated. If speaking in tongues means speaking in some mysterious language known only to God and not known to any group of men, no matter how much learning and education a man has, he will not understand the heavenly language. But foreign languages, known and spoken by men, can be learned. The fact that these languages were the kind that unlearned men did not understand indicates they were known, normal, human languages.

Remember, then, that tongues in the Bible simply mean languages and, in the case of I Corinthians 14, foreign languages, unknown by some who attended the church services.

THE MOTIVE BEHIND IT

I have already mentioned that there are only three places in the Bible where people spoke in tongues: Acts 2:1-11; 10:44-46; 19:1-6.

The central and most important Bible passage on the subject of tongues is found in Acts 2:1-11. First, it is important because it is the first time tongues are discussed in the New Testament. Second, it is important because speaking in tongues was on a larger scale in Acts 2 than in either of the other cases mentioned. Third, it is the most important passage because this is the only instance where we can be absolutely sure that speaking in tongues was a miraculous gift.

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Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion by J Lee Grady; Charisma Magazine

Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion

Todd Bentley’s announcement that his marriage is ending has thrown our movement into a tailspin—and questions need to be answered.

It was not supposed to end like this.
 
Evangelist Todd Bentley had heralded the Lakeland revival as the greatest Pentecostal outpouring since Azusa Street. From his stage in a gigantic tent in Florida, Bentley preached to thousands, bringing many of them to the stage for prayer. Many claimed to be healed of deafness, blindness, heart problems, depression and dozens of other conditions in the Lakeland services, which ran for more than 100 consecutive nights. Bentley announced confidently that dozens of people had been raised from the dead during the revival.
 
But this week, a few days after the Canadian preacher announced the end of his visits to Lakeland, he told his staff that his marriage is ending. Without blaming the pace of the revival for Bentley’s personal problems, his board released a public statement saying that he and his wife, Shonnah, are separating. The news shocked Bentley’s adoring fans and saddened those who have questioned his credibility since the Lakeland movement erupted in early April.

 

“Among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon, discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow and follow. The message was clear: ‘This is God. Don’t question.’ ”

 

I’m sad. I’m disappointed. And I’m angry. Here are few of my many, many questions about this fiasco:
 
Why did so many people flock to Lakeland from around the world to rally behind an evangelist who had serious credibility issues from the beginning?
 
To put it bluntly, we’re just plain gullible.
 
From the first week of the Lakeland revival, many discerning Christians raised questions about Bentley’s beliefs and practices. They felt uneasy when he said he talked to an angel in his hotel room. They sensed something amiss when he wore a T-shirt with a skeleton on it. They wondered why a man of God would cover himself with tattoos. They were horrified when they heard him describe how he tackled a man and knocked his tooth out during prayer.
 
But among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon, discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow and follow. The message was clear: “This is God. Don’t question.” So before we could all say, “Sheeka Boomba” (as Bentley often prayed from his pulpit), many people went home, prayed for people and shoved them to the floor with reckless abandon, Bentley-style.
 
I blame this lack of discernment, partly, on raw zeal for God. We’re spiritually hungry—which can be a good thing. But sometimes, hungry people will eat anything.
 
Many of us would rather watch a noisy demonstration of miracles, signs and wonders than have a quiet Bible study. Yet we are faced today with the sad reality that our untempered zeal is a sign of immaturity. Our adolescent craving for the wild and crazy makes us do stupid things. It’s way past time for us to grow up.
 
Why didn’t anyone in Lakeland denounce the favorable comments Bentley made about William Branham?
 
This one baffles me. Branham embraced horrible deception near the end of his ministry, before he died in 1965. He claimed that he was the reincarnation of Elijah—and his strange doctrines are still embraced by a cultlike following today. When Bentley announced to the world that the same angel that ushered in the 1950s healing revival had come to Lakeland, the entire audience should have run for the exits.
 
Why didn’t anyone correct this error from the pulpit? Godly leaders are supposed to protect the sheep from heresy, not spoon feed deception to them. Only God knows how far this poison traveled from Lakeland to take root elsewhere. May God forgive us for allowing His Word to be so flippantly contaminated.
 
A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch. Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary caution when an imposter shows up.
 
Why did God TV tell people that “any criticism of Todd Bentley is demonic”?
 
This ridiculous statement was actually made on one of God TV’s pre-shows. In fact, the network’s hosts also warned listeners that if they listened to criticism of Bentley, they could lose their healings.
 
This is cultic manipulation at its worst. The Bible tells us that the Bereans were noble believers because they studied the Scriptures daily “to see whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11, NASB). Yet in the case of Lakeland, honest intellectual inquiry was viewed as a sign of weakness. People were expected to jump first and then open their eyes.
 
Just because we believe in the power of the Holy Spirit does not mean we check our brains at the church door. We are commanded to test the spirits. Jesus wants us to love Him with our hearts and our minds.
 
Because of the Lakeland scandal, there may be large numbers of people who feel they’ve been burned by Bentley. Some may give up on church and join the growing ranks of bitter, disenfranchised Christians. Others may suffer total spiritual shipwreck. This could have been avoided if leaders had been more vocal about their objections and urged people to evaluate spiritual experiences through the filter of God’s Word.
 
Why did a group of respected ministers lay hands on Bentley on June 23 and publicly ordain him? Did they know of his personal problems?
 
This controversial ceremony was organized by Peter Wagner, who felt that one of Bentley’s greatest needs was proper spiritual covering. He asked California pastors Che Ahn and Bill Johnson, along with Canadian pastor John Arnott, to lay hands on Bentley and bring him under their care.
 
Bentley certainly needs such covering. No one in ministry today should be out on their own, living in isolation without checks, balances and wise counsel. It was commendable that Wagner reached out to Bentley and that Bentley acknowledged his need for spiritual fathers by agreeing to submit to the process. The question remains, however, whether it was wise to commend Bentley during a televised commissioning service that at times seemed more like a king’s coronation.
 
In hindsight, we can all see that it would have been better to take Bentley into a back room and talk about his personal issues.
 
The Bible tells us that ordination of a minister is a sober responsibility. Paul wrote: “Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others” (1 Tim. 5:22). We might be tempted to rush the process, but the apostle warned against fast-tracking ordination—and he said that those who commission a minister who is not ready for the job will bear some of the blame for his failures.
 
I trust that Wagner, Ahn, Johnson and Arnott didn’t know of Bentley’s problems before they ordained him. I am sure they are saddened by the events of this week and are reaching out to Bentley and his wife to promote healing and restoration. But I believe that they, along with Bentley and the owners of God TV, owe the body of Christ a forthright, public apology for thrusting Bentley’s ministry into the spotlight prematurely. (Perhaps such an apology should be aired on God TV.)
 
Can anything good come out of this?
 
That depends on how people respond. If the men assigned to oversee Bentley offer loving but firm correction, and if Bentley responds humbly to the process by stepping out of ministry for a season of rehabilitation, we could witness a healthy case of church discipline play out the way it is supposed to. If all those who were so eager to promote Bentley now rush just as fast to repent for their errors in judgment, then the rest of us could breathe a huge sigh of relief—and the credibility of our movement could be restored.
 
I still believe that God desires to visit our nation in supernatural power. I know He wants to heal multitudes, and I will continue praying for a healing revival to sweep across the United States. But we must contend for the genuine, not an imitation. True revival will be accompanied by brokenness, humility, reverence and repentance—not the arrogance, showmanship and empty hype that often was on display in Lakeland.
 
We are weathering an unprecedented season of moral failure and spiritual compromise in our nation today. I urge everyone in the charismatic world to pray for Bentley; his wife, Shonnah; his three young children; Bentley’s ministry staff; and the men and women who serve as his counselors and advisers. Let’s pray that God will turn this embarrassing debacle into an opportunity for miraculous restoration.

 

J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma. To read Charisma’s news story on Todd Bentley’s recent announcement, click here.

http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308%7ELife+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion